(Season 4, Episode 11 – “Sometimes a Great Notion” 
– Mid-Season Premiere)
Beginning population: 39,651
So, was it everything you were hoping it would be? Still trying to wrap your brain around what you just saw? You’re definitely not alone.
One of the big “woah!” moments of this episode was the reveal that the planet was last inhabited by Cylons. A lot of people already came up with this as one of several probable revelations about the planet; I know I wasn’t all that surprised. What was somewhat surprising was that the planet was nuked 2,000 years ago … and Cylons, including skin jobs, existed. I think we’re all a lot more shocked at that news than the Colonials. That would be like us … I dunno, finding a 2,000 year-old computer on the moon. What a mind frak!
Speaking of mind fraks, let’s talk about Starbuck. If she’s not a Cylon, then what’s going on there? Is she a copy? Another type of Cylon, perhaps? Some in the chat mentioned maybe she’s the missing Number 7 model. And how old is that ship, the wreckage and the body they discovered? Does it match with the time period from when Starbuck disappeared? And now Leoben is privy to the revelation — will he use that to his advantage, to once again get Starbuck to do what he wants, or else let the others in on the unbelievable news? With what’s been going on right now, would anyone really care?
Tyrol’s little flashback was food for thought, as was us finding out that the final five — or at least three of the five — were together in some sort of past life together, at the time of the nuclear disaster. We also get some sort of idea of where the ‘All Along the Watchtower’ song came from, as Anders said he was playing it in, I guess, a past life. I assume Tigh and Ellen knew them all as well.
Many of us have commented on the fantastic performances of the actors in the show, most particularly Edward James Olmos and Mary McDonnell. Well, Olmos certainly did not disappoint in this episode. It seems anytime Bill Adama hits the bottle, Olmos comes out with an amazing performance. Everything leading up to his encounter with Tigh spelled out the desperation aboard the Galactica. “Earth,” as everyone assumes it to be, is a wasteland. Everything everyone’s been struggling for turns out to be less than nothing — they can’t even drink the water or eat the vegetation. What’s more, Dee decides it’s enough that being dead would be a better choice. If Bill wasn’t fueled already by booze and despair, his march down the halls only served to multiply it times ten.
As I said before, I saw the screener Thursday night, sans the “big reveal.” In case you were wondering, the screener cut off at the point after we saw the Three on the beach with Tigh, right before he heads off into the sea. As for the “big reveal” of who the fifth Cylon is, I’m with what some of the people who joined the chat with me — the bigger story was Starbuck finding … dead Starbuck. That’s one thing that’s really difficult to wrap your head around. As for Ellen mentioning to Tigh that they’d be “reborn” and that everything was “in place,” are we to assume Earth sent out clones of them to what became the Colonies, 2,000 years ago?
I have one minor gripe about this episode, and that’s the obvious limitations in locale they had to make when shooting it. I understand there had to be some cut-backs in order to shoot the rest of the season. But to have everything happen within such a small area, on such a large planet — Starbuck’s ship; Tyrol’s “shadow”; the Centurion head — was so strange. Are we to assume that they were all meant to land in that location, guided by God(s)? Even with a limited budget, couldn’t it have been made to appear as though things were revealed in different locations around the planet?
Overall, even with so many crazy revelations (and questions), this turned out to be an OK episode, but not an amazing one. The best is yet to come … and there aren’t many episodes left to fit it all into.
Ending fleet population: 39,650
Clacked by Keith McDuffee 
on Jan 16, 2009 @ 23:32 EST5EDT
I think that they were drawn to that specific location through the locator beacon on Starbuck’s Viper. Who’s to say what drew the Viper to that location originally. But, Tyrol’s shadow, Anders’ guitar (and yes, at least for now, I’m going with that it was his), and Tigh walking into the water to find the rubble from the bank (looked like a bank with the safety deposit boxes) where he and Ellen died in the blast is a little convenient.
(I think they probably would have/could have found a lot of those Centurion heads around the planet if they’d looked more)
I think they didn’t care about Clone Earth because it was a wasteland anyways and just too depressed to care.
I enjoyed the episode, hopefully they don’t waste anymore time on the fifth cylon, it was rather bleh and doesn’t need to be explained.
currently watching the episode right now, but just wanted to know why you’re reviewing bsg here now keith & brad is doing it on tvsquad?
*POST AUTHOR*
I’m not with TV Squad anymore.
oh. i thought you still were. oh well, i think you guys have way more freedom here at cc anyway.
Congratulations bsgfan2003 for picking it right! Let us all applause for her guessing it was Ellen (thousands of clapping hands)! Our very own darling bsgfan2003!
I have a honey-do list to do today so I will post my thoughts on the episode later.
Can’t take credit. I was convinced by someone’s writings this last summer. And then worked backwords with the Last Supper picture to confirm it.
Kara: What a sureal experience it must be to find and burn ones own body.
Leoben: I was sitting on the couch laughing in an unhinged sort of way on Kara’s behalf thinking – What’s the matter Leoben, don’t you want to play house anymore!
Dee: A little bit of post tramatic stress syndrome here – for me that is! I kinda feel like my wicked secret Lee/Kara shipper heart pushed her to it – and now, I’m sorry. The jacks really messed her up, got her thinking about family, the Daddy she loved and never made up with. Then she had to see Helo, Athena and Hera, at peace because of family bonds. And she had to know that kiss with Lee was never going to amount to anything. I’m sorry Dualla! I never wanted you to do THAT!
Adama and Tigh: Wow. Fine, Fine actors.
Get a haircut Lee.
I still think Ellen is not dead from the poison and Cavil has her. We’ll see.
It was worth the wait for me. It lived up to the expectations for me.
Really liked the episode. It was nice to get some answers to where the final five… or first five I guess, came from.
Two big shocks for me though… Starbuck finding her dead self and Dee killing herself… actually, that was the biggest gasp moment of the show.
One thing though… Ellen? Out of the hundred or so “characters” we have met in 4 years, Ellen?
I completely forgot that I wanted to complain about all the horror commercials!
Not my bag SCI-FI Channel. Just because I love BSG does not mean I want to be exposed to every sick/evil/monster movie that is coming out.
Keith….A thorough review on a complicated episode. I have noticed that as time rolls on your reviews have continued to blossom. A word (albeit minor point) on the scope of the episode’s physical space limitations (and Dorv, this may answer one of your points as well). If I am not mistaken, a six reported that thier people found similar evidence of cylon remains and destruction at varius areas on the planet. I will have to re-watch the episode to be sure but if so, that would at least have been an allusion that they investigated a larger portion of the planet.
bsgfan2003….you have just about hit on what I was going to post about. I’ll post it anyway so I won’t need to write another in the midst of my wife’s seemingly maniacal honey-do list (lol).
As surprising and reflective as the events of this episode was, nothing jolted me more than the tragic death of Dee. I was floored. It was also a brilliant bit of acting and situational set-up in the way the cast pulled that scene off. I am saddened by her loss. Can you imagine what these people have been through? Now Dee, who no doubt still carried a torch for Lee, then had that wonderful evening with him….but alas!….she knew she was nibbling on forbidden fruit that she could not return to. The thought of the sudden departure of brightness of what could have been was just too much to bear. The final, fatal straw.
There is much to say but I will hear (read actually) it out from the commenters. There is plenty to go around.
It was a reflective, emotion-packed episode that left for us many questions. and as Keith alluded to, a short time to answer them.
If I may, a subjective point that involves my most favorite interests. It was such a joyous sight to see Athena happily playing with her child. As much as I love BSG, it is these kind of moments that I wish the show would end right there….freezing forever the joy and bliss in her precious life. Notice no matter how gloomy the surroundings are, Athena and Boomer always brings light and rejuvenation to the scene. For me, this was an excellent episode. Athena and Boomer was not harmed and no eights died.
they checked 4 areas on the planet. 4 corners of the world? lol
Forgot to mention: Does anyone find it odd that the whole prophesy thing and destiny driven theme that has been hammered home to colonist and cylon alike for months now….has been for this? There’s got to be something more. What kind of divine guidance would play that kind of cruel joke? No, this cannot be the Earth they are meant to find. If it is there has to be an angle.
Maybe not a cruel joke. Maybe like Baltar said to Tyrol (in clues too) about learning something, evolving.
Like labor pains producing a beyond belief glorious outcome.
The prophesy was not fulfilled – Roslin did not lead them there – Kara did. I think Roslin is still the “dying leader”.
i thought this was an awesome episode!
dee killing herself was just heart breaking. i had to replay it twice just cuz i thought someone else shot her. i didnt want to believe she did it herself.
i loved when lew ashby, wait i mean leoben sarte to back away from starbuck. that was hilarious. but starbuck finding out it was her raptor & body was just weird.
as for ellen being the final cylon, meh. i never read anything on peoples theories & to tell the truth, it was very anti-climatic. oh well.
Someone at the Chicago Trib did their homework:
https://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/01/final-fifth-cylon-ellen-tigh-battlestar-galactica-dualla-dee-.html#more
A lot a good work. Some highlights:
– The writers room first really raised the possibility of Ellen as a (the) Cylon during S3, but hammered it home in the S3/S4 hiatus.
– Moore alludes that the Ellen/Saul relationship is epic
– The relationship between Cavil and Ellen will be revisited
– While not planned at the time, D’Anna apologized to Ellen
– They wanted a price to be paid for the loss of Earth as an ideal, and Dee paid the price
– There’s some great stories about the process of shooting this episode during the strike
– Moore says this is fact: “…that the Cylons are the 13th tribe and they found this planet and they called it Earth.”
– Moore states emphatically that I am wrong, “They have found Earth. This is the Earth that the 13th Colony discovered, they christened it Earth. They found Earth. ”
Lots of good stuff. Take a read.
Herc at AICN says I missed this point:
“* When Ryan asks if this is the only Earth we’ll see, Moore doesn’t answer “yes” or “no.””
The Trib article provided a lot of insight into the episode. Long, but well worth the read!
Thx!
Thanks for posting that Dorv!
Well if a whole Viper can be reborn somehow, why not a planet?
I have a feeling that things went awry because Ellen was not with the other four. Somehow this creates a problem…
Something I had forgotten about was when the cylons held Starbuck. They took something from her…Could that play into her ‘rebirth’?!?!
I’ve always wondered about that… Would it be a throw away point, or would it come back around in the end.
I like the idea that Starbuck was somehow cloned from whatever the Cylons took on Caprica. However, uh, if she wasn’t wouldn’t your first guess be Leoben?
If not, doesn’t that indicate that there is something else out there that we haven’t even conceptualized yet?
(Or I guess, considering how scared Leoben was, should we already be jumping to something along the lines of that last conclusion?)
*POST AUTHOR*
Either Leoben should at least be onto some kind of plan meant for Starbuck, or — as some have theorized already — nothing was ever taken from Starbuck and it was all a lie to trick her into submitting.
She did blow the place up, didn’t she?, perhaps her ovary was destroyed in the conflagration?
I don’t have much to add that hasn’t been said already.
Few random thoughts:
-Leoban being totally scared of Starbuck. She is so not what he thought she was. Makes me wonder if even Leoban will begin to doubt his own ability to “see the universe and see the patterns” or will he accept his own belief to see madness as seeing God.
-As to the reveal of Ellen being the 5th. Little anti-climactic to me, but then any choice would have been anti-climactic to somebody. Guess this falls into RDM’s clue of “the fifth is tied back to the beginning” since one of the first times we see Saul he is burning her picture. I just hope now that the fifth is out we can stop focusing on that.
-Starbuck. This is what I want more of. It just all needs to make some kind of sense. I still believe her re-appearance is caused by what ever form we are getting the “Ships of Light” from the original series. Did anyone else believe with Starbuck finding her dead ship was the re-imagine version of Athena finding the crashed ship with Count Iblis?
-Speaking of call backs…anyone catch in the background of the Tigh flashback the red alert siren from the original series.
-Adamas hangover. Man… that whole time with Saul and seeing him drink all I could think was “his poor head tomorrow”
Yes. Starbuck’s story is the important one for me too.
Remember her painting? The comet, we know was the rebel cylon baseship, but was the 3 flashing stars riddle answered? And truly finding her own body was a Count Iblis reference. No way she’s an evil influence, everyone except maybe Boomer (when she shot Adama) has free will here, and there’s no way Starbuck would hurt the fleet on purpose.
I’ll have to re-watch the scene to hear that siren from the original series. Good catch Akbar!
One more:
So I am now accepting of the whole “This is what the 13th tribe called Earth” however we have yet to see any recognizable continent in any shot of this planet. If the show isn’t in some way tied to our earth why show us the earth they did at the end of Season 3?
Good question about Earth. I mean, whose to say that there Earth is our Earth, except for that end of S3.
You know, I had not even thought about the “Count Iblis” comparison. That is so very interesting. And yes, Leoban turning away from Starbuck in fear was another “surprise” for me as well. As I watched that scene, I thought “What’s up with this!”. I like that “cloning of Starbuck” theory Dorv mentioned too. I like it because I am a man who likes his loose ends tied. At the time of Starbuck’s captivity and operation by the cylons, a lot of speculation was placed on what happened. I’d hate to see the writers simply ignore that incident.
I’m getting a kick out of hearing the detective work and theories of you guys (and gals). Like I have always said….It’s like extra episodes.
It just seemed like a natural fit to me. For all those out there who bash the original show and consider it such utter cheese compared to the new, RDM still seems to mine lots of bits from it and re-invent them anew.
No bashing for me dear, just saying there was some cheese there. Did I love that cheese as a kid, absolutely!
I think that one thing you mentioned about the local being so small and that they were being guided by the gods. Imagine everything that had to happen in the time before the mini-series alone to make 3 of the final 5 cylons all serve on one battlestar. We are definitely dealing with astronomical odds so its very believable, to me anyways, that there is some force manipulating things… although it may be as simple as “All of this has happened before, all of this will happen again.”
Am I the only one that didn’t watch the original? I was born in ’79, and never really went back and watched it. So, I’ll have to do some Googling to fill in the blanks on Iblis. Though, I won’t take the time to Google the Red Alert audio ;)
OOooh you missed out. I used to pretend Dirk Benedict was my boyfriend as I was jumping of my roof into bushes and swinging on my tire swing. Count Iblis really scared me, and I took great joy in the Ship of Lights putting things to right.
Audio confirmed by memory, although I never would have caught it, had Akbar not brought it up!
I can’t believe you never caught the original series during re-runs, as I am not that much older than you. No Buck Rogers then either?
Tim-1 – oh yeah, Baltar, did have his hands full with Lucifer!
M*A*S*H – Still funny to me.
Oh dear how did my comment end up so high up here?
I never watched the original series either. Is it worth going back and watching it now?
Yes.
I would say yes as well, with the caveat that your expectations should not be too high, be prepared for a little cheese.
You are so right bsgfan2003. That series was a story all in itself wasn’t it. It had a lot of action in the first 7-8 episodes. John Colicos played Baltar in that version and he was brilliant! I loved the cylon Lucifer….remember how he used to play head games with Baltar? Ha ha! Yes, worth watching but this new version is definately hands-down the superior.
I know I watched some episodes along the way, but far enough back that I don’t remember much (except for the big details).
Every older TV show I’ve tried to go back and watch doesn’t stand up for me. I just barrowed a friend’s copy of Tour of Duty, and it was almost laughable. I remember watching it when I was younger and just loving it. Now, not so much. Same with Doogie Hauser.
Though I do love M*A*S*H and Cheers.
That is true in many cases. Let me recommend an older show to you Dorv, that IMO does stand up pretty well. It is called, “The Invaders” starring Roy Thinnes. One of my favorites, and it is out on dvd now. I’d be curious to hear your take on it.